homosexuality, sin, & whatever analogy we use under the sun: let's hear both sides: revisited2

thanks to all for contributing to this continuation of thoughts brought on by listening first & then providing some responses in hopes to find a spiritual reflection in a conversation that seems so often polarizing.

i remember having a conversation with my father somewhere in my 20's (not that my 20's was a long time ago). my dad, someone whom i have the highest respect for, had made some statements that expressed how he had trouble being spiritually nourished by a female pastor. i couldn't really understand that my dad had expressed this, my dad, who in my opinion is a very enlightened thinker. it blew me away. as we continued to talk i sorta figured out that it wasn't so much about female pastor-ship in general, but more of one particular pastor whom he had trouble identifying with.

when i started blogging i had this cool service to my blog, "stats." with my stats i could see the avenues where people found my blog, from other blogs to google searches. i was sorta amazed & amused by the things that people searched to find my blog. one of the searches that caught my attention was "henri nouwen homosexual." huh? was henri gay? my regular readers know of the influence henri nouwen has had in helping to sort my spiritual life. this naturally was something that i had to come to understand, was someone so influential to me gay?

i followed the links & read some articles (i can't remember what actual sites they were). some were slanted, but some seemed honest and credible sources that suggested that nouwen was indeed gay. it was not the issue we find in the church today as he was a catholic minister, thus unable to marry or participate in romantic relationships (thus trumping the 'practicing' homosexual argument). so for the most part, nouwen's sexuality was not something that people had to agree or disagree with, it was more or less a moot point. in this instance, for me, i needed to find some clarity. i found myself contemplating all that i had learned from this man. does what he taught me still stand up?

in silence and prayer i asked, what did henri teach me about prayer? this seems legitimate still, it's not like he's the only one who talked this way, it's more or less his words helped to make it tangible for me. his observations on life & faith, which helped to open my eyes to God's movements around me. does this now have less of God's movements? what would have been my relationship with nouwen if i had known him to be gay all along?

to my questions, i found an answer. the answer i found was that it didn't matter.

the possible homosexuality, real or not, of one of the influential figures of my spiritual life was not going to become a changing factor all of a sudden. the relationship (albeit a 2 dimensional relationship through numerous readings) was still there. the garnered incites were still insightful. the practices of my faith influenced i was still practicing. why should it matter now, all of a sudden, if an influential figure took on a new label?

it does matter though. it did take some internal wrangling with me, whom i happen to consider myself to be highly intelligent and profoundly wise. &:~D so it must be tough for others right?  i come back to my dad. note: we have not actually had this conversation, but i use our mentioned conversation to help draw some parallels that are potentially unfair but potentially similar to my dad & others. my dad, who has grown within a context that the spiritual leaders have exuded a masculinity & been male has a struggle with breaking from that context. he's certainly okay with female pastor-ship, but i doubt he'll be spiritually lead as he might from his traditional understanding of male pastor-ship. it's just that he prefers that original context, it's comfortable, familiar, safe.

today's world still struggles with the gender of pastors in areas and with denominations. to now throw in another dynamic of sexuality will only put more people at un-ease. the comfort levels have been pushed, the familiar of what one knew has changed, the unknown puts one into a place of fear where a fight or flight can surface to ensure a psychological safe. is this where we are at?

can a homosexual, practicing or non-practicing, be a spiritual leader? i'm inclined to say "yes" & "no." yes, because someone who is faithful to their calling & connection to God cannot be dismissed because of sexual practice or orientation. they are able to be as inspiring as any other pastor to an individual. no, because as we are still evolving in our understanding of what it means to follow Christ we do have our levels of comfort to help us to understand these meanings. one of those is having a context that we are not in direct or indirect conflict with. a silly analogy: it's like navigating a trail while questioning the trail map, that's just a tough one to get through. this isn't a great answer, actually it's not an answer at all if you determine answers as a final solution, but faithful to this conversation we are naming the aspects that seem important.

Comments

[Jonathon Norman]

gavin a couple of things stood at to me from you've written:

1. gay as well as straight is called by God to do the work of God.

2. nouwen found meaningful relationship through his role as catholic priest.

so the thought i sit with after reading your article is, if in some way by denying a means to a meaningful "sacramental" monogamous relationship for the glbt community are we silencing an important part of the "body" of god's creation?

obviously "deep relationship" is a gift that god intends for us to have (gen. 2). that relationship is expressed in many ways other than male and female relationships- it can be expressed as a grandparent to grandchild, 2 males or 2 females as best friends, etc. etc...

so i wonder if for someone who is gay and finds meaning expressed in a deep relationship with someone of the same sex, if we are keeping them from participating in a "sacramental" relationship by deeming it wrong. just some thoughts outloud.

thanks for the good article.

jonathon

[Lorna]

indeed good thoughts here.

does it still apply to female clergy I wonder. In the past few weeks there seems to have been activity on my blog with people genuinely worried for my salvation. Mostly I bless them to follow God as they see best, but I do wonder if it's at least in part that they are caught in a stereotype warp, like your dad, or reacting /over reacting to something.

It's ok you needn't answer - just musing really.

your pup story made me laugh btw :) be blessed!

[Adam]

As far as im concerned, thats their personal choice, and personal issues should not effect their business or religious lives. I believe the homosexuality of anyone doesnt make them spiritually numb, it just turns certain people off of them. One thing i will say though, the pastor in Philly, the Rev Irene Stroud that was defrocked today for violating the UMC's ban on being a practicing homosexual clergy member. While she might have been a wonderful leader, she knew going in to this that it wasnt liked and was against the discipline, so in that case, i believe the church did the right thing. But from a religious standpoint, I bet she could minister to individuals just as well as anyone.

[gavin]

j-norm, the intent of this thought is to express the side, not of the pastor. i'm not going to discount the calling of the glbt. however, the people that they are charged with leading, what of them? so i lift up just two snippets, draw a comparison if possible find some sense is this craziness.

[Jonathon Norman]

i understand where you are coming from now. i imagine it could be a bit like an african american pastor being assigned to a caucasion congregation or vice versa. it has been a part of the tn conference to intentionally do so. i know that you were part of a congregation that experienced this and did quite well.

i imagine that other congregations may have experienced difficulty with having a leader who was of a different race. is this something that a congregation simply has to come to grips with (embedded racism), when the comment is made- "he/she is a good pasture, i'd just feel more comfortable with a white preacher."

just thinking out loud,
jonathon